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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 20, 2018 11:18:45 GMT
LOL ok game on! I'm not worried about it, you can have your scale and I'll have mine, either way the purpose is the same. So, I say we get to work on the project. I've been thinking more about it, and rather than just delete all the old maps I'd like to go forward with the "culling" idea with re-tweaks in temps and all the other mission aspects, and create a newly revised "gold standard" map pack. At this point we're basically the only game in town so no matter what we do it becomes the end-all/be-all for mech3 multiplayer. But, because it's going to take a while for the "textured" missions along with the custom installers I'm hoping to create I figure it would be best to make a new map pack based on the old work.
So, I guess next is decide on project/editing criteria.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 20, 2018 14:24:03 GMT
I'll start a small list of criteria:
1) obviously trim repeats--and I don't necessarily mean get rid of all repeats, some are same map but different/interesting spawns, but some are just plain ridiculous and redundant.
2) add mfb's to missions that don't have them. That's probably something I'll have to do since some previously done mp maps don't have the option using the mission editor.
3) take respawn points in a little to make each mission closer quarters? unless there are some that just have great spawns even though far apart? With the size of the community that ever plays we're lucky to get 4 players at one time. Back in the old days far spawn points were interestingly a challenge because with more players it was still exciting and the added tension of trying to get there in time to help your team was fun. But, since we're taking out respawn perhaps all the maps need to have different spawns? Or, do we not take out respawn? Perhaps save that idea for the textured maps later, which will also be team maps...?
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Post by herby on Dec 21, 2018 4:19:42 GMT
Where to start?
The scale in Fahrenheit is not crucial at all. What matters is reigning in the MW3 temp scale. You didn't give your thoughts on the high and low points...
Maps are ridiculously over populated. 30 or 40 maps is 'way' plenty. Besides, going through 'every' map and checking 'all' the different settings will take forever. It's not doable. Seriously, we're going to have to dump at least 80% of them.
Respawn doesn't have to be removed. Adding some rules will fix the problem.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 21, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
Ok, well my thoughts on the scales is that you like yours and I like mine. I don't want to argue about it anymore because I think that having a basic guideline is good enough. The high and low points are fine, gameplay will be the deciding factor...we're both shooting for the same thing so I'm not wanting to over-think it beyond what's already been said, except to say that the ice maps will have to be re-temped to 7 or 10 as a common minimum temp, unless you want to be creative (occasionally) and say "this world is way below zero".
Yes the maps are way too numerous. I don't think the job is overwhelming with 2 of us splitting up the work. We could each choose a world and get started.
I agree that alot need to be scrapped. However, for the benefit of new players I suggest we try to keep maps that provide "newness"...so when we come across a map that has an interesting gameplay area we keep it. Example: remember that game we played on the c4 world that took place on top of the weapons depot? HOLY CRAP that was a crazy fun game! My only critique of that map was there shouldn't have been boundaries. The way to see where the gameplay will occur on maps is to look at the spawn points through the mp mission editor and basically visualize it...so you'll know when you see something good. I also suggest that old maps that used to be considered "staples" in the mech3 multiplayer community are keepers. "Ice tunnel" "Ice City" "Ice fields" are some examples. I can go through the list using the map manager and tell you which ones might be staples, and then we can decide whether or not to scrap them. I'm not saying if it's a staple we HAVE to keep it.
It does seem like a tedious drawn out task but with 2 of us it won't be that bad. I'll start on the c1 world, you start c2?
Once the maps are trimmed down, re-number them from the lowest number on up, but remember to leave the "vanilla maps" numbered as they are. Usually in each world the first 2 or 3 mp maps are the ones that came with the game, such as pyramids, and are numbered readermp1...readermp2...so for whatever world we re-number the "keepers" from the lowest point.
Also remember that as we are working on this, once missions get renumbered you can't use that iteration of the game with other players because your maps won't match, so if you decide to play on a given Sunday create another iteration of the game to use with the old maps while we're doing this work. I usually have other instances of the game installed for just that occasion. Simply rename the "MechWarrior3" folder to 'OFFMechWarrior3" and the Mech3.exe to "OFFMech3.exe" and then install the game again and you'll have 2 instances of the game, when you want to use one, just rename it to its normal name and rename the other.
Yeah, I think we leave in respawn. Players can easily choose no respawn before a game so if there's an interest then it can be done anytime. I think for the textured maps we'll do the same thing.
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Post by herby on Dec 21, 2018 21:30:49 GMT
OK. I'll start on C2.
As for the scale. I'm not trying to be confusing or beat it to death. I just want to know where the end points are going to be. I thought I made that clear but maybe I didn't. Reason being: If a map is a keeper but the temp scale falls outside the designated hot/cold limit (yet to be decided) I'd like to reduce or increase the temp to the upper/lower boundary so the map can be designated finished.
Question: How we change the boundaries? Is it intuitive?
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 21, 2018 22:30:05 GMT
C1 world done. Only took a couple hours.
I ended up with only 15 maps, lol. Sooooo many redundant maps.
I took all the "ice maps" that were keepers and re-did the temps to 7 as my lowest limit. Except for Finnegan's Op Damoclese ice map, which is 1 of his 2 best maps and they play with his team map utility.
I would say the upper limit is 40, like the 2 desert worlds, and even the lava mission is 40, but if you want to get creative and go higher use your own judgment.
I'll get started on the c3 world lol (most custom maps of all the worlds, yikes!)
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 21, 2018 22:32:53 GMT
The boundaries in the editor have nodes, you hover the mouse over the node, then hold left click and move it, just like all the other nodes. I suggest moving the boundaries way way out so they don't interfere. There's really no point to them anymore.
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Post by herby on Dec 24, 2018 15:53:22 GMT
Ben really busy getting all my work done before Christmas... If you're going to use [40] as the high cutoff then you should "compromise" and make the low cutoff [10]. Not [7]. It just makes more numerical sense, and it's better for balance.
OR: If you insist on using [7] then you should compromise and lower the high cutoff to [33] like on the chart. Less difference and is even better for balance. Agree on either one of these proposals and I'll stop bugging you
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 25, 2018 20:11:12 GMT
7 and 33 sounds good to me Merry Christmas old buddy
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Post by herby on Dec 26, 2018 4:19:30 GMT
WOW!!! I actually got my way!?! I guess I wore you down Merry Christmas Freako, and have a great new year. I'll get back to C2 tomorrow after work. Been kind of hectic here lately. Sorry it's taking me so long...
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Post by herby on Dec 27, 2018 5:04:27 GMT
I don't think it's a good idea to assign me to culling maps. I went through c2 and ended up deleting 95% of the maps because on the surface they look like duplicates. I can't read differences in atmospherics and so on. Aside from boundaries I have no clue the difference between a good map and a bad one. Taking every map into the game would take me weeks to get through all of them...
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 27, 2018 10:59:34 GMT
Ok, do you still want to edit after I cull the list?
Are you having trouble with the mission editor?
Do you know where it shows you the properties of the maps?
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Post by herby on Dec 27, 2018 21:18:06 GMT
I can see properties but some don't make sense to me. Can't really tell duplicates from looking at the maps and going through all the stats just takes forever. You know more of what you're doing than I. I can edit things like temp and boundaries... maybe rain and wind. If you'll cull the maps and hand them off to me I'll go through all of them and set low/high temps only for maps that go outside the range and change boundaries or delete them so you don't have to.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 28, 2018 2:20:10 GMT
ok
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Post by herby on Dec 29, 2018 18:50:27 GMT
Have you given any thought to using MW4 Mercenaries weapon stats as a base line for balance? They did a pretty good job of hashing out range, heat and damage. They're probably not all cannon but it feels pretty good to me...
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