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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 9, 2018 13:17:14 GMT
you know what? I'm looking at that scale and I'm thinking it's never going to match the mech3 integers. It doesn't match them no matter how you manipulate that scale. Simple fact is, 40 matches 104F in mech3...desert temps, heat management temperatures don't have to be adjusted at all. The only thing that needs to be adjusted by our reckoning is that "zero" still needs to have some heat management. I think the rest of the settings match what they're supposed to be as far as heat management and there's no need to change them. All we need to do is decide on an "ice" temperature range that defines a general range for environments that represent a place that's cold. I suggest we find the lowest temp setting that makes the traditional "ice" map have no heat manaagement and just say those settings are off limits. In PM those numbers would be 0 and 1....mech3 might be the same, but there still might not be enough heat management in 1 through 5, I don't know. Honestly, I think that's all we need to find out.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 9, 2018 15:46:54 GMT
Look I think we're just beating the drums over the same answer, just different ways of looking at it.
Tested your maps;
the 10 made a firefly with 11 single heatsinks shut down after 3 shots of 3 med lasers while running. That's warmer than I thought it would be, but probably a breeze with a madcat prime with dhs. So I'm thinking less than 10 for the bottom value.
btw, the 3 singleplayer missions on the c4b world are stock maps, and they all use cold temps. I think the final mission is warmer than zero though, so maybe that's the cutoff point we're looking for.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 9, 2018 15:53:58 GMT
Interesting:
c4b stock temps:
m4~ 2 m5(lava pit)~ 40 m6~ 10
10 degrees because it plays out in the snow world but on top of the lava pit.
makes me want to test all temps below 10
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 9, 2018 17:48:29 GMT
OK, I just tested temps 3 through 7. first with a firefly 10 single sinks...3 temp required a little careful heat management using 4 med lasers.
So, I figured we need a better benchmark mech, so I started using the Mad Prime. With mad p, temps 4, 5, and 6 showed maximum efficiency with those double sinks (13?) but you couldn't alpha strike them without shutdown. At temp 7 management began to become an issue. fast toggle between the ERlg group and the other lasers group forced shutdown. I then used the 'NC" strider with two groups of er meds, 11 double sinks. the group of 5 was usable, the group of 6 was not.
My conclusion is that 7 is a great "avg cold world heat management" temp. and certainly a good limit for how low we go.
I think it's still possible to imagine that the "zero" temp ice map can reflect a realistic world. I know that your opinion is that a battlemech would start to have issues functioning in that kind of cold, which in real world temps would probably be way, way below zero...but then I think to myself...would those issues be present in a machine that is powered by a fusion engine? I'm not saying that if you were to agree with my reasoning we would allow this kind of environment to be the norm again...but perhaps a few here and there. The idea is that when a 'mech steps in water the efficiency of heat sinks goes to 100%....and if an atmosphere were cold enough why wouldn't the same thing happen? So maybe sometimes we could do a map that's that cold...but very few.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 9, 2018 19:55:13 GMT
Well now that we got that settled (lol) Time to start figuring out the plan.
1) edit the existing mp map list (take out selected repeats) 2) take down all existing mp map downloads (mw3cp map pack, etc..) as I have control of 3) re-number the keepers, create new map pack for download 4) start working on the texture project with respect to the keepers and some new ones, along with a way to include the new textures when these maps are in use
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 10, 2018 10:21:27 GMT
Actually, Finn's Map manager lists them with names and file names. I believe I posted the download for it on the main site downloads page, so that would be a helpful tool. In any case, maybe it's just time to get rid of all the old maps, period If people are left who want to play them, let them. But for now perhaps it's time for new mp missions made by this project to be the only maps available. Or like you say, we could keep some of them, like Finnegans maps, which are basically multiplayer versions of all the campaign missions. ...completely ditch almost all the ice maps. But, I still want them re-numbered for the sake of organizing. The hardest part of this project is going to be part 4, figuring out how to install different textured maps and have the worlds they reside in revert back to original textures when not in use. I have some ideas on that but not sure if they'll work. Luckily we have a lot of work to do before then.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 10, 2018 10:22:31 GMT
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 10, 2018 21:31:26 GMT
yes it is. You can mask out maps you don't want to appear in the game with it by putting them in groups.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 10, 2018 21:32:10 GMT
I wish I had the source program for it because it would come in handy with this project.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 11, 2018 14:26:10 GMT
I think you're overthinking it man. Tested in game is really what matters and the results speak for themselves.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 11, 2018 15:53:01 GMT
btw herby, I've started trying to learn blender. I was wondering if you could help me figure out how to open the mech3 .cob files in blender? I tried using an online converter but blender still wouldn't open the file (or maybe it did and I just don't understand blender yet) I had converted to .obj, and .3ds, both of which blender supposedly opens.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 12, 2018 0:01:03 GMT
I guess I don't understand. I honestly don't get how you can think that 43 in the game is going to be the equivalent of 176...no matter what your table says...when 40 is basic desert heat. I think what you're not taking into account with your temp collumns is that the celsius moves in increments of 4, while those same temps go in varying increments of 7 and 8, so technically you can't just assume that the mech3 temps are going to match those increments one integer at a time. There's got to be an inherent incremental step in the mech3 collumn as well if you want to go by this comparison, and in my honest opinion the only accurate approximation of a temperature that matches all 3 collumns is 40c=104=40mw3(before you changed it)
Now, I understand that we talked about the low end of the scale (0 mech3) representing somewhere drastically below zero, but again, I think the increment needs to be figured out for the single digits on the mech3 scale. So, if we were to say that mech3 10 degrees equaled 0 celcius, and 40/mech3 equaled 40 celcius, well let's see what happens in between? Would you be willing to do a table like that to see how it comes out?
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 12, 2018 0:20:32 GMT
celsius fahrenheit mech3/pm -32 -26 -14 -28 -18 -11 -24 -11 -8 -20 -4 -5 -16 3 -2 -12 10 1 -8 18 4 -4 25 7 0 32 10 4 39 13 8 46 16 12 54 19 16 61 22 20 68 25 24 75 28 28 82 31 32 90 34 36 97 37 40 104 40 44 111 43 48 118 46 52 126 49 Here's my attempt, hope you like it
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Post by AncientxFreako on Dec 12, 2018 0:24:40 GMT
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Post by herby on Dec 19, 2018 16:48:51 GMT
I thought you were mad at me because I went against your plans and were ignoring me. So I acted like a baby and deleted all my posts pertaining to the heat scale. I feel stupid... So... shall we continue our battle?
I moved the cutoff point down to [7] where you wanted it and that reduced the high heat setting down to [33]. This makes a 26 point spread. Nice and tight.
Don't forget Freako... if the scale is too broad we're back at square one and we have no reason to mess with this. The whole point is to help weapon balance. If we raise the cold cutoff then we need to also lower the hot cutoff.
Cold Limit -59 °C -74 °F [7] Hot Limit 71 °C 160 °F [33]
This will probably force some maps to be reset to lower values for heat cutoff, but it's to be expected since we're also raising the cold cutoff point. An acceptable and small compromise, in my opinion.
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