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Post by AncientxFreako on Feb 8, 2017 11:42:34 GMT
I've created these sub-forums so that newcomers to 'MechWarrior 3 and the mods can have organized, quick, and easy access to answers they need regarding the mod. It's come to my attention that questions/issues arise.
If you're new to the mod and single-player mods for 'Mech3, I would encourage you to not give up or allow frustration to set in. The campaign can be difficult at first, and maybe even seem impossible, but it's not as bad as it may seem. I've been playing 'MechWarrior 3 for almost 20 years now, and I've read countless reviews of the original game and its brother, Pirate's Moon. One common thread for 'Mech3 is that the single-player was way too easy. This, and a few other factors regarding my experience in the realm of multi-player, were my main motivations for making the campaign a challenge with my modding.
It has been my experience/observation over the years that most players who come to play my mods nowadays are for the most part "MechWarrior veterans" who have played most if not all the MechWarrior PC games. However, I want to explain something that not everyone may realize, and hope not to offend. My focus in this explanation is that most have spent more time with either Vengeance, 'Mercs, MWLL, and MWO, than they have with 'MechWarrior 3...and that is probably an accurate assumption. The thing is, there are 2 major differences in gameplay between 'Mech3 and ALL these games: the issue of Lag, and 'Mech defensive flexibility. BOTH play a huge part in moulding the skills of any 'Mech pilot.
On Lag and Defensive flexibility:
Lag is the time differential between what happens on your computer and what happens on your enemy's computer in a multiplayer game, for those who don't know. It has many facets, it has many effects. You and your opponents are virtual "ghosts" being pitted against each other. What you see on the screen is not the actual opponent, it is an image of the past, in microseconds. How this shapes a pilot's play style? You become a 'Mech pilot who never stops moving, whether it's lateral directions, toggling forward and backwards in order to "ghost dance" or maneuvering unexpectedly to throw off your enemy and/or spread damage. Multiplayer vets who played 'Mech3 all the time pilot like this, no matter what game they're playing, because Lag creates an added defensive shield for them to exploit. This creates a defensive flexibility that becomes honed over the many years they played.
In the other 4 'Mech games mentioned above, Lag has become a non-issue, even if it still exists to a small degree. I remember when Vengeance was most popular in multiplayer.. the game was all about "jump-sniping"...hiding, playing cat-and-mouse...literally finding new ways to sit still, because the person who got their aim right the quickest got the kills, and there's literally no better way to aim than to not move. So, although it was nice to have lag go away when Vengeance came out, it created a lot of 'Mech pilots who neglected basic defensive skills such as lateral movement. A moving target is harder to hit. I realize there are those who may feel patronized by that statement, but be honest with yourself: Although you do understand this basic concept, have your really and truly integrated it into your style as much as you should?
When Lag is gone, such as in single-player, it becomes even more important to have good movement and shoot on the fly...especially when the AI will shoot you with pin-point accuracy if you stand still. I know the bots in Vengeance multiplayer used to do this quite well. BUT...vengeance also had another difference--the weapons didn't really have any kind of "physics" drop off...they were all pin-point accurate. This trend continued through Mercs, and perhaps MWLL, but I can't say regarding MWO.
Other aspects of piloting that may cause a veteran pilot to relax defensive maneuvering skills: Lack of "free-look" in games like Vengeance and Mercs; this limits your scope as far as how well you can shoot while moving. Map environments that are chock full of natural and man made obstacles, or "cover"...this creates a mind-set that lends itself to hiding, jump-sniping, and playing cat-and-mouse, ALL strategies rooted in basically sitting still and not really using lateral movement. Limited torso-twist: Many 'mechs in vengeance and mercs had limited twist. This, added to the lack of "freelook" is like putting a blind-fold on a blind man, IMO. Of course, many players opted for the 3rd person view partially because of these limitations, but also because they could exploit the advantage. But, again, what happens when that advantage is gone? 'Mech piloting, as ANY martial art, is about self-reflection, and flexibility towards constant improvement.
To sum up, the best way to win in 'Mech3, whether it's multi-player or single-player, is to never stop moving laterally to your enemies. Even the most experienced 'MechWarriors can relax on something so basic, so don't feel bad, just be honest with yourself. All your other 'Mech piloting skills/experience/strategies will be complimented and rewarded by this small self-review.
I've seen this over and over again whenever I've played multiplayer in the other games, and then newcomers play 'Mech3 after being vets in the other games, so I know there's some truth to it.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Feb 8, 2017 12:07:59 GMT
I want to thank everyone who has tried out my mods. Again, I don't want to offend anyone. I want to help you enjoy your experience with the mods as much as I have. I truly appreciate everyone who plays the mods, enjoys them, AND those who get frustrated by them. Know that you are not alone. They've even frustrated me from time to time. That's what I love about 'Mech3 single-player...the missions don't always have to be the same thing twice. The next version of the campaign is going to be harder than the current version, count on it, and some of the missions I have gotten my ass handed to me, and I can only laugh when it happens. Sometimes it's actually exciting because it brings back that feeling of adrenaline I used to feel back in the early days of multiplayer, the desperate feeling of not wanting to be killed on the battlefield...when you hold your breath....you get a pit in your gut...the tension that used to come when in a circle of death with someone in multiplayer. That feeling comes far less often now that I'm older. So when it comes I enjoy it. So if the missions kick your ass, enjoy the moment, and come back and rise to the occasion.
Bring the Paine!
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Post by StoneWall on Feb 8, 2017 12:09:49 GMT
In a MechWarrior 3 battle always move X against an enemy, never Y. See chart below.   |
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Post by herby on Feb 8, 2017 17:11:59 GMT
1) A quick rush has the advantage of putting you behind the enemies while your lance mates do a frontal assault (a pincer move). It gives you better targeting to take out legs at close range. It also distracts your enemies so your lance mates can shoot without taking too much damage. Can't always use this tactic though. It depends on the terrain and the enemy positions.
2) Maneuvering behind your enemy can be tricky but if you can stay behind them they have a difficult time hitting you while you have a good vantage point to remove a leg.
3) Jump jets can be useful for maneuvering to the back of your opponent. If you jump while turning you can pivot to face your adversaries back side.
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Post by herby on Feb 9, 2017 7:53:49 GMT
By the way. I can't hit shit with the lasers. Maybe they're a little too narrow fielded? Missiles are not tracking very well. I realize it's your mod but why would you make weapons less effective? Balance is not very user friendly. It depends on your preference of weapons. Some do very well while others do very poorly. Some weapons will knock you on your ass while others are very weak. Maybe you should re evaluate your balance routine? Don't stray too far from stock.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Feb 9, 2017 13:37:26 GMT
By the way. I can't hit shit with the lasers. Maybe they're a little too narrow fielded? Missiles are not tracking very well. I realize it's your mod but why would you make weapons less effective? Balance is not very user friendly. It depends on your preference of weapons. Some do very well while others do very poorly. Soime weapons will knock you on your ass while others are very weak. Maybe you should re evaluate your balance routine? Don't stray too far from stock. I don't know if you read the description of what I did with the lasers on the weapons mod description page of my mod website, but they cause damage over time, rather than instantaneous. I basically saw that this was how MWO seemed to do lasers and thought it was a good idea, and it makes sense. They work like the pulse lasers originally did in 'Mech3, only it's a much shorter laser burst. If you are able to hold the lasers on target you will get good damage results. Otherwise the damage will spread across your target, or if you're unable to hold on target not all the damage will be there. Missiles track fine, you just have to learn how they behave. It's a feel, and it's somewhat different than before. LRM's and SRM's track differently than they used to. This is because in 'Mech3 missiles have always been way too dominating a weapon compared to the rest. So, believe me when I tell you, hours, literally hours..and YEARS of experience with the game...went into the careful consideration AND re-evaluation of balance. It was the same for every single weapon. And, it continues, especially in multiplayer. The latest patch (2.1) made some adjustments to, incidentally, the Arrow IV cluster missiles, as well as flamers. The re-evaluations never end. Your input/constructive suggestions are noted and appreciated. Some testing I'd like to read about, if anyone has time or inclination, would be testing weapons boats such as all AC's, UltraAC's, RAC5, HAG boats. Some of the newer weapons boated on a 'mech and how they perform in singleplayer as well as multiplayer would be appreciated. How many on a mech cause a knock-down? (gyro)...for what weight class did the knock down occur? Heat issues and so on. I did test for all these things but it's better to have more than one source of testing. |
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Post by StoneWall on Feb 10, 2017 3:12:53 GMT
By the way. I can't hit shit with the lasers. Maybe they're a little too narrow fielded? Missiles are not tracking very well. I realize it's your mod but why would you make weapons less effective? Balance is not very user friendly. It depends on your preference of weapons. Some do very well while others do very poorly. Soime weapons will knock you on your ass while others are very weak. Maybe you should re evaluate your balance routine? Don't stray too far from stock. We could use more testers, especially online. We should be testing the Attack/Defend mod this weekend. If your game works online, come join us Sunday. |
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Post by herby on Feb 10, 2017 4:21:30 GMT
I'm not sure it works on line. I've never tried it, or even know how to do it. I'm also not familiar with some of the weapons being tested.
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Post by herby on Feb 15, 2017 4:11:11 GMT
I'm going to lay out what I find to be different for me than maybe for others. An issue that maybe was overlooked...
A different approach. The long game.
I'm a long player. I don't like getting close unless there's a possibility of getting behind the enemy. With this (long game) tactic most ballistic and beam weapons fall way short both in accuracy and in punch. Combined, they make the game extremely difficult to play at distances and all but impossible to shoot accurately while moving. It effectively reduces the game to medium and short range game play. Missiles are a different animal since you can "lock on" but still fall short in moving while engaging at extreme distances. These disadvantages force players to either play close games or stop and concentrate on target acquisition. Since the AI has no problem hitting you at distance, staying in one spot can be dicey.
The short range weapons are not a problem. The medium range weapons are not a problem. The weapons designed for distance are limited. Since they also take up more room and weigh more you carry less of them. If I can carry, in a medium mech, 8 medium lasers which are devastating up close as opposed to carrying 3 large lasers which are ineffective at range... the choice is obvious if the long game is moot.
I know I've been complaining about the beam weapons lately but I would implore you to rethink weapons strengths and target acquisitions at range. Maybe tweak long range weapons differently than their shorter range counterparts. Make them ineffective at medium and close range but easier to use at distances? Differences in effectiveness at different distances for medium and short range as well as long range would force players to think more about the types of weapons they use for different scenarios. This would add a new dimension to the game play and add more usefulness to short range weapons as well, instead of just using them for filler. Maybe something to think about for your next update?
I'm loving the mod. It shows real talent and dedication. The sound effects are very cool. I'm not attacking it or you, don't get me wrong. I'm just bringing up an issue that maybe you haven't thought about before...
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Post by AncientxFreako on Feb 15, 2017 9:18:55 GMT
Issues I haven't thought about before...LOL. j/k Though I do find that an amusing notion...not to sound cocky but after 18 years of playing no other game can you blame me? But seriously though I don't feel attacked and I appreciate the ideas and take it all as constructive criticism. I haven't had much in the way of reviews in probably more than 10 years of working on these mods, so believe me when I tell ya..it's seriously appreciated. I have given much thought to the effectiveness of different weapons at different ranges but you bring up a valid point about lasers, especially the ER large. I would agree that of all of them that should get a tweak with respect to range since it is supposed to be a superior class of laser. I'll give that further thought and put it in my notes. With regard to the other laser weapons...the "non-ER" lasers are actually more effective because they have less "damage over time" than the ER's, and I did this, as mentioned on the weapons mod page of the mod website and in the read-me, for precisely the reason you mentioned above...to create a reason to choose innersphere lasers over ER lasers depending on the situation. As I said, you raised a great point regarding this because I may have inadvertently made the ER's less effective at range as you say. There are 2 things that can be done: there is a script on all lasers that allows a lessening of damage at full range, I don't know why the devs put this in the game but I kept it simply because it was there. I could take it off the ER's, but that would only count for the exact range of the weapon I believe. Another thing I could do is use the damage drop off script from the LRMS as I did with the ERPPC's because canon rules say that LRM's and PPC's have small damage within 100 meters. I could actually use this on ER lasers for say a damage drop off of 85% within half the weapon's range. This would be creative license but it makes "battletech" sense. For every weapon and system in battletech there are advantages and disadvantages. Weight to heat ratios, ammo limits/damaging weapon, more power or performance always means something gets sacrificed. Anyway, something I will definitely give thought to. Meanwhile, I can tell you as someone who could be considered to be about as "veteran" with 'Mech3 as one can get, regarding the rest of the weapons: 'Mech3 is pretty unique to PC battletech games in that the weapons, aside from lasers, are not pin-point accurate. This to me, is truly the magic of 'MechWarrior 3. You get velocity drop-offs, you have to lead your aim sometimes, and so on. I have raised the velocities on the weapons to the most reasonable degree that the game can handle, and faster velocity = more accurate. Example: PPC's...any faster and the animation doesn't work~~you can't see it. Machine guns are as fast as they can go. They simply won't shoot any faster and believe me I've tried. In some cases I've simply gone to the limits of the engine. BUT...it's a very good thing because as I said, this is the magic of the game. It means you have a skill goal to reach, which trust me you will. There is a mastery of the weapons in this game that is something you won't find in other 'Mech games, and it's something to enjoy. More in regards to range fighting...since I'm not done with the weapons table yet, if you have a question about ranges for the weapons go to Sarna.net and look at their weapons tables because I've tried to stay pretty much canon, with only a few exceptions and in some cases my interpretation is a little different. I use a hex of 40 in my multipliers because a hex of 30 would make ridiculously short ranges in the game...and I always use the longest range described at Sarna. 40 is ok because it's corner to corner of a hex. The Arrow IV cluster missiles though...have the longest range: 1500 meters, and I'm pretty sure that's not canon. ERPPC's are 980ish because there is what I call a "contact" fade for them in the game and for a couple other weapons, maybe due to the nature of the animation, so I added a little extra range so that the "actual" range of 920 can have more successful hits. Same with the gauss weapons and the other non-laser non-missile weapons, I added between 20 and 40 meters because of this game "glitch". So, theoretically I've weighed in your considerations for range-fighting with everything but the ER large lasers. And again...the game engine has its limits. I can tell you this, I can use the weapons at range and that means you can too. ERPPC's range sniping is a passion of mine. Try the HAG 30 as well. I think its range is like, 750 or so. Ultra AC2's and LightAC2's have pretty long range too, and they're pretty accurate compared to the other AC weapons. Watch for the white flash animation from an AC hit, it happens in conjunction with the "explosion" animation...very bright and easy to see at 900 meters..that's one way you'll know you got a hit. One more thing to mention...ALL weapons damages have been lowered by 15% in the mod in order to allow you to take advantage of all the great defensive possibilities in the game. This can account for at least a little bit of the lack of damage you're seeing. With the accuracy of the AI that I've done believe me you need this. It makes for a more level playing field. This too is mentioned in the read-me. |
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Post by herby on Feb 15, 2017 17:08:51 GMT
Great comments. I gave up on MW3 a long time ago when I updated my PC and found it no longer ran. Just recently have I been able to get it working again. MW3 was always my favorite game. I have Vengeance, BK, Merc, but they don't hold my attention like MW3. The mechs feel big and act big, unlike the other games, which are toy like and more in line with a FPS game rather than a simulator game. Not to be disrespectful but... I've watched videos of your game play and you have just as much trouble hitting things at range with Large lasers while moving as I do  ...but to be fair, you're deadly at medium to short range and I'm very impressed. |
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Post by infinitefire on Feb 15, 2017 19:26:16 GMT
I'm not sure it works on line. I've never tried it, or even know how to do it. I'm also not familiar with some of the weapons being tested. We generally attempt to play on weekends using gameranger, which does all the complicated networking stuff for us and all you have to do is join our lobby on the playing time and you`re done.  Talking about the weapons, The Heavy Gauss Rifle seems somewhat underpowered, because, as its so big and has some gyro overload recoil to have to be mounted on the torso of a mech it gives the feeling that it should gyro at least a small mech, but it generally doesnt do it.  Just some thoughts I had when playing with the mod |
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Post by herby on Feb 15, 2017 22:19:06 GMT
We generally attempt to play on weekends using gameranger, which does all the complicated networking stuff for us and all you have to do is join our lobby on the playing time and you`re done. What about versions. Do you ever run into problems? |
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Post by infinitefire on Feb 15, 2017 22:32:49 GMT
Versions? the only problems we had were related to the mod not being installed properly
You can also just join the lobby and we will help you with getting multiplayer to work if there are any issues
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Post by AncientxFreako on Feb 15, 2017 23:10:10 GMT
Exactly.
Finally got Stoney's number after he killed me a few times.
There are others, but yeah, sniping is tough...and FUN.
Can't make it too powerful Firey. Dual Heavy gauss will gyro any mech in the game. So will the HAG 30 (Dual)
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