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Post by subject9x on Oct 4, 2014 17:19:19 GMT
I know that MWO has so far turned out to be a disappointment for many (if not most) Mechwarrior fans, I think I also firmly fall into that camp. However in the name of progress, I think we should have a fairly even-headed discussion about why MWO is good or bad and what could be better. So here are a few discussion questions that have been rattling around my head for a few months now. For the record, I like what MWO was back in Closed Alpha 2 and what it represented at the time. I'll never forgive PGI for the design decision of going F2P and having no single player. Enough about me though, let's get some questions going.
What do you think makes a good Mechwarrior game?
How does a Mechwarrior game feel to you?
What did MWO do right?
What should the next Mechwarrior game include?
note: these are primarily opinion based questions and are incredibly subjective: there is no real 'right' or 'wrong'
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Post by AncientxFreako on Oct 4, 2014 20:43:13 GMT
What do you think makes a good Mechwarrior game?
Ok, good question, and I hope we get to hear from everyone. To me, the single most important thing that makes a good MechWarrior game would be every single aspect of what goes into making an accurate as possible simulation. The better the simulation, the better the "feel" will be. When thinking about the aspects that make a good simulation of piloting a battlmech, I think it's good to think about what it's like to be a member of a tank crew. There are plenty of written accounts of what it was like to be inside a tank during a battle in WWII. The sounds of the battle outside may be muffled just a little, but big weapons make big noise...and you really can't muffle it enough. It sounds like being inside a large metal can when bullets or heavy rounds hit. You KNOW the devastation outside that the tank is saving your from.
When an AC hits your mech you get rocked inside, and the slug makes a huge sound when it slams into your mech. PPC's firing from your mech should be like standing next to a lightning strike...jarringly loud. Machine guns make a different sound hitting your mech as opposed to hitting other objects...etc..and I could go on. Everything in the environment should be destroyable.haha. Reality should be addressed. I know I've made a big deal about trees before, but not only should they be obstacles but trees are not easy for even a large excavator to deal with...nevermind having a tree burst into sawdust when a mech hits it like in mech4. Some trees could actually do damage to a mech if you're not a skilled pilot. A mech could get stuck in a large enough tree...are you kidding me? I could go on and on and on, but I know I've made my point.
Feel? I think of all the mech games so far Mech3 had the best feel of a mech moving, both visually from the outside and inside the cockpit. Granted, the graphics are outdated, but this feel has not been better than mech3. I've watched many gameplay videos from mwo and I really think they did a lousy job with mech movement. It's just cheesy, cookie cutter mech movement. I feel the same way about how they move in mwLL as well.
What did MWO do right? I haven't played it. Maybe I really don't know. To be honest I think the mechs all look rather convoluted, like exaggerated versions of what they're supposed to look like, so I can't even say they did a good job using the potential of the game engine as far as graphics for the mechs. Sad to say, I can't think of a single good thing.
What should the next Mech game include? All of the above I've talked about, plus... A more realistic, canonical customizing mechs system. If you're a low ranking mechwarrior in an army, you use the mech they give you, usually stock. Even in a merc outfit there are priorities governed by the almighty dollar.
The Elemental Claw! Mech Swords! Axes! Singleplayer and Co-op Campaigns that revolve around canonical historical battles How about something MWO inferred they were going to do...have a MMORPG community warfare that revolved around the timeline starting just before the clans invaded. Actually, thinking about it, now that they've failed to actually bring that about I'm glad I never played!...because I might have regretted missing out on that if it got done right. Free to play that's actually free to play? ...so that everyone earns what they have and is on an even playing field.
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Post by Morgana on Oct 5, 2014 20:52:37 GMT
What do you think makes a good Mechwarrior game?
Mechwarrior, to me, has always consisted of both, time spent in the MechLab, as well as time spent in battle. The customization of the mechs and the knowledge of each weapon system are as much part of the game, as planning strategies amongst your lance mates to defeat your enemies.
To embelish on Freako's immersion factors, there's alot to be desired in the cockpit of a mech in MWO. Granted, at this time, they are more concerned with game play and working on the upcomming Community Warfare, but I would love for them to revisit a few things once they are completed. Cockpit shake is for now hardly noticable. I would love to see collision come into play with this. Consider getting hit with a single AC2, sure a bit of a shake. But if getting hit by several at the same time, I want the mech to teeter, and have to regain it's stability. Cockpit smoke is completely missing. If a mech is hit center torso or hit in the head, there should be smoke, making it difficult for you to see and target enemy mechs. The same would apply to heat. Heat should create steam, fogging up your windshield. And last but not least, the cockpit glass should splinter into a spiderweb of cracks, again minimizing your visual capabilities. Some day, patience is a virtue, and for this game, I'm willing to wait.
Feel? A Mechwarrior game is going to "feel" differently depending on what style of game play and what mech you are playing. To me, I feel they've done an OK job. Feel is totally personal and will be different to each individual. It's your perception, and what "feels" right, dependant on your gaming rig, your bandwith, and your playstyle. In Mech 3, I found myself enjoying Medium and Heavy weight classed mechs. It felt right on the silly 56K internet speeds we had back then. But in MWO, although I have played mechs in ALL weight classes, I alway find myself coming home to my Light mech, and not just any Light Mech, but my Jenner. It is certainly not a META mech in the game's present state, but it's what, to me, moves with fluidity and responds without thought.
What did MWO do right? Although they may have gone through their share of mistakes, the fact they parted ways with IGP, can only be a good thing. Alot of things, such as deadlines and schedules to get things completed were implemented by IGP, even though PGI knew that what they had wasn't ready or they didn't agree with it. Their openness with their community since their departure from IGP has improved. There aren't too many games out there, that the development team even discusses ANYTHING with their community. They are listening to feedback from their players, provided the players respond with constructive feedback. Can't blame them for ignoring raging trolling forum posters. Present it in a business-like fashion, and they will at least look it over and discuss it amongst the rest of the Devs.
What should the next Mechwarrior game include?
That's tough to answer. The only thing that comes to mind, is the role play that we will experience with the upcoming Community Warfare, actually fighting over territory. As much as I enjoyed Mech3, it was rather aimless. Ladders and Solaris was all we had. Actually rewriting the lore in a sense, fighting over planets and territories, will give this the edge it needs to succeed.
I'm saddened to see such negativity from some of you that have not fully engaged themselves into the game. They've come along way since Closed Alpha. Hit registration was a nightmare back then, and certain mechs were sooooo OP! That's not to say it's perfect now, no, not yet, but it HAS improved, and continues to improve. Community Warfare will be coming soon. I can only hope, that you will revisit the game and give it another shot. Considering that 3 years ago, we had nothing but a MOD to Crysis, (ugh, I hate EA, could never get logged into their Beta cause they blew it), that fact that this bunch of dedicated Devs came together to create this iteration in today's graphics is exciting. I have waited a decade for this, and will give them all the time they need. I have logged over 12,000 matches since they started keeping track. That doesn't include the matches in Closed Alpha. I'm looking forward to the next 12,000+, and when the fighting acually means something (territories).
Forgive me if my opinions seem White Knighted, I've had my moments of grey. But I, as you, have a love for this game that is undaunted and will probably be here (in MWO) until the servers go down, as they did with the Zone. I could go on for hours in discussion, but it's time to get my Mech "fix" in for the day.
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Post by StoneWall on Oct 6, 2014 10:57:39 GMT
The way companies run their online games, it feels like we are running from their nerf hammers. I quit playing a little bit after ECM was added, the community was pretty nasty on the forums and we had too many changes too fast.
I rather have paid $60 and had every mech available to me like the old games.
I am excited about the game for the next 5 years though.
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Post by perspective on Oct 7, 2014 4:37:35 GMT
I'm totally on board with conquest...it would be nice to see something similar in concept to the total war series. You have a map with players from each "world" competing with one another and actually planning out missions...ambitious yes, impossible no-> should there be another campaign I would want something like an expanded mechwarrior 2 mercs -with endless "random" missions along with story line missions. It would also be nice to give proper commands to your lancemates. "I want you to regroup here" (selects part of game map in real time) or "place ambush here" ^^ real formations would be good too (triangle,wall,etc). Imagine getting two atlas's to take the punishment up front while you stay right behind them directing the assualt. Dividing up your forces- tell your lancemates to go through the front door, while you flank with a different set of lancemates. Commanding a binary of mechs- get the light mechs to scout ahead-> send in some medium mechs to harass from a safe distance-> send in the heavy mechs to block the enemy-> crush the enemy with the assaults. The possibilities are endless. Ahh- I would like to see- missions with other vehicles/robots: the battletech universe is not all mechs ^^ mech 2 mercs had a mission or two with a flying tank... overpowering a kitfox with a tank...THAT was fun(ny). Be able to use Elementals, aerospace fighters, tanks, etc for certain missions would be nice. - Directional jump jets would be a great feature if properly implemented. Bring back zero gravity/low gravity space missions. *Dropship space battles with mech/aircraft deployment (why not?)
Cheers,
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Post by Yogaphobe on Mar 16, 2015 7:47:31 GMT
Mechwarrior for me has changed a lot over the years. At the time of writing this, I am 19 years old and not too far away from turning 20. My father introduced me to Mechwarrior 3 and Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance when I was about 5 and a half years old. Back then all I cared about was stomping around in an Atlas or trying to jump up to the tallest city buildings in a Cougar. I always played in third-person with heat off, damage off, and infinite ammo on. As I got older I slowly started to actually listen to my dads advice about how move a mech, and what kinds of loadouts to use. I stopped doing things the hand-holdy ways and I started playing from first-person. The older I got the most interested I became in the lore, and the simulation aspects of the games. When I first heard about a new Mechwarrior game in 2009 I was extremely excited. I had been waiting for a new game for a very long time, and was quite disappointed with the Mechassault games for obvious reasons. The closed beta rolled around in 2012 and I actually got accepted somehow. I had a lot of fun with the game back then and thought it had serious potential. Open beta happened and things were going well until around the time of ECMs implementation. Shortly afterwards the frequent updating caused the game to become unplayable on my machine and even when I did manage to get it working I was constantly frustrated with the way ECM turned every mach into a short range dubstep concert (pulse lasers everywhere!). Needless to say I stopped playing it and went back to MW4.
In recent years I've been reading through the Sarna.net entrees on Battlemech variants, and seeing which ones are possible to built in MechWarrior 4's mechlab, then testing them to see how they work. Some are really fun like the Atlas AS7-D or the Hauptmann Prime (two of my favorites), while others are laughably bad for that games style and pacing.
Anyways I've been rambling...just wanted to say what my experience with Mechwarrior has been in the past.
What should a MechWarrior game feel like? I think that I pretty much totally agree with Freako on this one. Immersion is key. With the exception of ruining balance and logic, a good MechWarrior game should strive to be as much of a Battletech simulator as possible. I think MW:LL was close with this seeing as you could use more than just Battlemechs. Some of my favorite memories with MW:LL were actually spent in a light fire support tank, not a Mech.
What did MW:O do right? I enjoyed the ability to aim the arms independently of the torso, and the ability to look around the cockpit. And while I largely prefer the designs of MW3 and MW4, I thought that a couple of the redesigns were pretty cool. Namely the Centurion, the Highlander, and the Thunder Bolt. Sadly I feel that these points are pretty badly held back by the fact that MW3 did the arm and cockpit things much better, and while I do enjoy the Centurion, Highlander, and Thunder Bolt redesigns, I find redesigns of mechs like the Atlas, Zeus, and especially the Dragon extremely jarring and I feel they miss the point of Battletechs tone and attitude.
What should the next MechWarrior game include? Well hopefully it would be a simulator on the scale of Star Citizen (assuming that delivers), but set in the world of Battletech.
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Post by StoneWall on Mar 17, 2015 10:51:09 GMT
Star Citizen, I'm getting into that game. I had to buy a new graphics card to play it. But it was worth it so far.
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Post by Yogaphobe on Mar 17, 2015 20:00:26 GMT
I have been so excited to play that. I never played Wing Commander or Privateer but I did get to play a lot of Freelancer, so I know Chris Roberts does quality work.
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Post by AncientxFreako on Mar 18, 2015 17:29:21 GMT
This is turning into a great thread! The various opinions are really inspiring and good to read! Morgana, sorry if my opinions about MWO have mostly a negative tone, yes I really do apologize for that. I wish it could be different, I really do! I was just as excited about a new MechWarrior game as everyone else...it's just that in order to play it, I have to justify a new EXPENSIVE rig...and from what I've seen so far I just can't, and that's really disappointing to me, and so is the fact that in order to really get anywhere in the game you have to financially play "keeping up with the joneses" by pouring cash into it. I can't justify that either. What it basically boils down to is MWO is an expensive hobby, like skiing, or playing golf. Good equipment ain't cheap, and it costs money to do it. But then I think to myself...it's virtual. It's not real...but, at the same time you can still have fun with friends playing like you would a golf game, I get that. BUT...I haven't started playing golf with my brothers yet for the same reasons. Can't afford the hobby.
I'll keep watching you youtube and try to remain hopeful.
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